Utilizing This Blog

Understanding DNA and how it might be useful to the genealogist is the purpose of this blog. Starting from the atom, it tells the story of the DNA molecule. It is intended for the genealogist who has no real background in the science fields, but wishes to gain a little understanding about this complex subject.

The post of September 6, 2010 begins this adventure. "DNA and Genealogy" is its title. This is followed by a series of posts which attempts to build the structure of this DNA molecule from the bag of salt water that surrounds us all. The chemicals of life they are called, and where this DNA molecule "lives" is introduced. Using "Super Hero" atoms, the basic molecule making up this DNA is shown. By September 19, 2010, the alphabet of life is presented which defines the spelling of this thing called the "genome". Phosphate, plus sugar, plus nitrogenous base makes sweet music in this thing called life!

A way to conceptualize DNA in 3-D is presented next, starting with the post of October 10, 2010. Making your "bucket list" is important here. Basic principles are listed, and a description of "mutation" is presented. [Post of November 13, 2010.]

A little snip here and there follows, with a description of DNA, the codon, and the alphabet that defines all. Understanding the "terms" which are used by the folks dealing with this DNA testing is next... a whole bunch of them!

The "Gene Tree" is then presented. [The post of December 30, 2010.] Here the concept of the "haplogroup" can be visualized. Then, "haplogroups" to "haplotypes" are presented. The distribution by geography is shown. [The post of January 10, 2011.]

Our genetic trail out of Africa is then presented. The Rift Valley to the Delta of the Danube are discussed.

Since the JONES surname has Celtic roots, this is the focus of the next series of posts dating from February 10, 2011 to March 14, 2011.

Using my own DNA, and genealogy of more than 50 years, the next series of posts outline some 53 generations! Imagine that...wow! [March 23, 2011 to May 2, 2011.] The haplogroups that have been discovered to share the surname JONES are then presented. This includes the concept of "Most Recent Common Ancestor" (MRCA). [June 5, 2011.]

The genealogy of the JONES surname is then related. It is phonetic, not genetic! [See post June 18, 2011.] Multiple roots connect the name.

Finally, the family groups that share the JONES surname are presented. The haplogroups are discussed, and an invitation to join this adventure is given.

Wow...seeking and using this DNA can be fun. This blog is written to help the genealogist utilize this information. Good tree climbing... The Jones Genealogist.

Good Stuff!

The human species is controlled (defined) by 46-chromosomes. These 46 chromosomes are packaged in 23 pair, numbered 1-23. [Imagine that!] Numbers 1-22 are called "somatic". They control the cells. Number 23 gets all the fun, and is called the "sex chromosome". It is passed down during reproduction. The Y-chromosome is transmitted from father to son. The X-chromosome is transmitted from father and mother to daughter. [Gives the mitrochrondial DNA written as mtDNA.]

Each chromosome is a series of nucleotide bases which are arranged in units of three (3). These units 0f three (3) are called the codon. It is a series of codons that make proteins. A series of codons that work is called a "gene"!

The "gene" falls along a section of the much longer DNA molecule. [Containing multiple genes.] Its location is called a "loci". Each gene has two sides opposite. These sides are called "alleles". Allele numbers identify the address along the long strand of DNA molecules (genome). A loci number gives the street address of these alleles. [Its cytogenetic location!]

DYS nomenclature is: D = DNA, Y = Y-chromosome, S = (unique) segment. This identifies the unique location along the Y-chromosome where a change (mutation) has occurred. A single nucleotide change is called a SNP (snip). A number of changes that have occurred very near to one another, is called STR (short tandem repeat.)

Haplogroups are determined by the methods called SNP analysis.

Haplotypes are determined by STR analysis.

Wow...good stuff!

Roots

Roots are the foundation of the plant. In Welsh, the word "plant" means children. As you know, in genealogy, the roots of the children are their ancestors. Ancestors (roots)...children (plant)...interesting use of words.

Since the JONES surname is Welsh, our roots go back to the tribal groups that occupied the Islands from its early days. (Albion and Hiberna) [Claudius Ptolemy tagged these islands around 150 AD! Of course Albion is the big island, and Hiberna is the little.] Thus our Y-chromosome would take these roots.

The following tables list the Celtic tribal groups that have been named among those who occupied the islands. They are arranged by somewhat of a geographic location, with those known above Antonine Wall (Firth of Forth), North of Hadrian's Wall (Solway Firth), and south of Hadrian's Wall. [Roughly Scotland today.] The tribal groups in Wales and the Marches are next, with the single tribe from what is now Cornwall. Those tribes in the central, southern, and eastern area of the big island are listed next.

The nine tribal groups from Ireland are:

Dalriata
Nagnatae
Erdani
Cauci
Auteini
Gangani
Vellabori
Brigantes
Iverni.

This gives a total of 35 tribes. What a group it is! The roots of our Y-DNA. Somewhere there is the Y-chromosomes for the JONES surname! Any guesses?

Various sources have been used to compile this list, the major ones are:

Celtic Britain, by Lloyd Laing, p.11, Charles Scribner's Sons, NY, 1979

A History of Britain, by Simon Schama, p.59, p.83, talk miramax books, NY, 2000

The Oxford Illustrated History of Roman Britain,p.4, p.29, p.94, p.143, p.147, by Peter Salway, Oxford University Press, 1993.

Roman Britain, Outpost of The Empire, by H.H. Scullard, p.24, Jarrold and Sons, Ltd., Norwich, 1979.

The Celts, Uncovering the Mythic and Historic Origins of Western Culture, by Jean Markale,p. 11, Inner Traditions International, Rochester, Vermont, 1993.

Please note that not all spellings were the same, and not all sources listed the same number of tribes.

House of Trevor (Tudor Trevor)

The lineage of the House of Trevor is given in great detail in Nicholas, "Annals and Antiquities of The Counties and County Families of Wales". This text, first published in London, 1872, gives the history, the chief physical features, and many of the lineages of the families of the counties of Wales. The author, Thomas Nicholas, states in his preface:

"Descriptions and accounts have been given from personal inspection; facts, dates, names, have been obtained from the documents or direct testimony of the Families recorded." [Vol. I, p. v]

Of course, the House of Trevor, has many branches :

The surname Mostyn is given Vol. I, on pp. 451-452, (Co. Flintshire, Mostyn).

The surname Pennant is given Vol.I, pp.453 (Co. Flintshire, Basingwerk and Holywell).

The surname Trevor (of Trevalyn) Vol.I, p.457.

The surname Lloyd (of Pengwern) Vol.I, p. 450.

The surname Eyton (of Rhuabon) Vol. I, p. 446.

The surname Young (of Hanmer) Vol.I, p.440.

The surname Trevor (of Brynkinallt, Co. Denbigh) VoI. I, pp. 415-416.

The surname Griffith (of Wrexham) Vol.I, p.408.

The surname Jones (of Llwyn-Onn) Vol.I, pp. 354-356.

Wow, surnames that share a common Y-DNA.

Nicholas was reprinted by the Genealogical Publishing Co., Inc., Baltimore, 1991.

The geographic locations of the families listed above center around Wat's Dyke. See:

http://welshgenealogy.blogspot.com/2011/10/wats-dyke.html

On the Other Side of the Fence

The last post discussed some of the factors that introduced the JONES surname to the world. Multiple families, multiple roots, and multiple Y-DNA! For those of us from Wales (R1b1a2), it will take a somewhat different approach to climb to the other side of the fence. Just what family groups existed before all this English annexation?

The following post outlines a series of Welsh family groups that have produced a JONES surname branch. This research is the result of many, many years looking for my own JONES family connections. They will be listed as "House of ....", representing the roots of the Welsh family that produced the origin of the JONES surname today. If one can connected back to a Welsh family line, then this would be the origin of your Y-DNA! Starting with my own family line:

House of Trevor (Tudor Trevor) before 900 AD

House of Bleddyn ap Cynfyn before 1000 AD

House of Goch before 1460 AD

House of Herbert

House of Llowarch ap Bran

House of Griffith ap Nicholas

House of Shrewsbury

House of Jestyn ap Gwrgrant

House of Ievan ap Ievan

House of Cadifn vawr

House of Cowryn Cadvan

House of Trench (Ireland)

House of Treownes

...just a start to the other side of the fence!

Seeking Your Y-DNA

There has been a discussion that both Y-DNA and surnames are handed down from father to son. This of course is true if the surname is transmitted to the male heirs at the same time the Y-DNA. However, this had not always been the case. The figure to the right shows such a period in Welsh and English history were a surname was transmitted due to changes in the "law of the land". Here, prior to 1536, very few carried the surname JONES. In a fairly brief period, there appears a large number who took this surname. This "cohort" effect, produced a large number of JONES families who did not share the same Y-DNA. In fact, it was more likely that other surnames shared the same Y-DNA due to the fact that the Welsh naming system did not use an English surname. Since the change in Welsh law became English law, the English system of naming [first name, surname] was required of all Welsh who were to participate in this new system. [Act of Union, 1536]

The diagram to the right shows how the Welsh Y-DNA was transmitted to male heirs. [All males had equal inheritance under Welsh law.] Four male children of Thomas, 1) Richard ap Thomas, 2) Edward ap Thomas, 3) John ap Thomas, and 4) David ap Thomas would receive the same Y-DNA from Thomas.


Their children, 1) Peter ap Richard ap Thomas, 2) David ap Edward ap Thomas, 3) Thomas ap John ap Thomas, and 4) John ap David ap Thomas, would also share the same Y-DNA. During, and after the Act of Union, their children would be given [if they did not choose] a name under the English system. Thus, 1) Peter ap Richard ap Thomas, could become Peter Richards, 2) David ap Edward ap Thomas, could become David Edward(s), 3) Thomas ap John ap Thomas, could become Thomas Jones, and 4) John ap David ap Thomas, could become John David. Four different surnames, but all share the same Y-DNA. Multiple names, becoming multiple surnames, all under a new legal system.

When your family tree reaches this time period, you will need to take these factors into consideration. You will need to shift your tree climbing to a Welsh system of names when you seek your Y-DNA.

Research taken from: The Jones Genealogist, Vol.VI, No.4, Nov/Dec, 1994.

Any Other Jones Haplogroups?

The last several posts have discussed the haplogroups that have shared the surname JONES. These have been R1, I, E, G, J, and Q. Are there others with the surname Jones that carry one of the other haplogroups? Please identify yourself. Place a comment on this post and give your family haplogroup. Any other JONES families out there?

The Jones Surname : Fire Works Intended

The haplogroups that make up the JONES surname are shown to the right. [Based upon 275 individuals submitting their DNA to analysis.] A "big picture" to shown the relationship between the various haplogroups identified is shown. It is intended to represent proportionately the groups found by DNA Y-chromosome analysis. [SNPs = snips]

R1b represents 76%. Haplogroup I represents 10%. The remaining groups are all less than 5%.

Previous posts discuss these haplogroups. The surname JONES, fire works intended!

Jones Surname and Haplogroup J

Haplogroup J made up the remainder of those submitting their DNA for analysis to the JONES surname group. The Middle East and North Africa is thought to be origin for this branch of the human genome. Only 2% of these folks carried this SNP (snip). [ A place along the chromosome that has this genetic marker.]

Anyone out there with the surname JONES, and the haplogroup group "J"? Please let your JONES family and its history be known.

Again to review: The JONES Surname - Haplogroups identified =

R = 78% (R1b= 76% and R1a = 2%)

I = 11%

E = 6%

G = 3%

J = 2%

Q = trace 1/275.

Jones Surname and Haplogroup G

Haplogroup G made up 3% of those in the JONES surname interest group. [At the time of this analysis the total in the group was 275.] Asia Minor, Iraq, and Iran are thought to be the starting point of this haplogroup.

Are there those with the surname JONES from haplogroup G? Please identify your family and their story.

So far, haplogroup R1b = 76%, haplogroup I = 10%, and haplogroup E = 5%, and now haplogroup G = 3% for the surname JONES. Keep those cards and letters coming in!

Jones Surname and Haplogroup E

Six per cent of the folks who had their DNA analyzed for the surname JONES were haplogroup E. [6% of the 275 individuals who made up the whole group] Originating in Central Africa, this haplogroup would most likely represent the African American population who share the surname JONES.

Those of haplogroup E, please identify your lineage and DNA that have the surname JONES. Would love to have the opportunity to connect the surname JONES and its history for all haplogroups.

Jones Surname and Haplogroup I

It is clear that those who share the JONES surname do not have a single "common ancestor". There is no "Adam Jones" who started at the beginning, and was the founding father of our surname.

It is also apparent that there are several haplogroups that share the surname JONES. My specific DNA was tested in a group that had at least 275 individuals who had an interest in the surname JONES. [Not sure that all 275 actually carried the surname.] These have been discussed in the post "Those Other Jones", May 20, 2011.

This post is to encourage those who share a common haplogroup to list their family, and identify their DNA lineage. Hopefully, this would allow communication between other JONES families that share this haplogroup.

Haplogroup I [Scandinavian] is the second most common [11%] among those 275 individuals sharing an interest in their DNA. All those "Vikings" I guess? Perhaps even "Norman"? [They started out Vikings!] Anyone of Haplogroup I, please identify yourself. Please use this post and the comment section to share your family connection to the JONES surname.

17 - 14 - 10

George Jones has posted his JONES family DNA information on the comment section of the last post. Thanks George for being willing to share the information.

He identifies a snip (SNP) called R-L371+, which he reports as being a rare and unique 3 part signature called 17-14-10. [DYS448=17, DYS456=14, DYS450=10, thus 17-14-10!] These terms have been discussed in previous post, and if you do not understand the symbols [like DYS], please go back to previous posts that try to explain the terminology.

Anyone else with knowledge or experience regarding this JONES line, please share. Any JONES families with 17-14-10?

Add Your Jones Family DNA

This blog has dealt with the JONES surname. In most cases, those who share this surname are not Y-chromosome connected. If you know your DNA, and would like to share it on this blog, please place it in a comment to this post. Give what information you would like, and I will then make a post of this JONES family, and hopefully this will provide a way to make connections.

New Blog: The Brick Wall Protocol

A new blog intended to help those who are stuck before one of those "brick walls". See: http://thebrickwallprotocol.blogspot.com Many, many brick walls in JONES surname tree climbling!

Please Join In The Fun

The last two posts have outlined a fair number of JONES surname groups. Most of these groups do not share the Y-chromosome! For those who share the JONES surname, and you know your family originates among one of these JONES groups, please join the fun and identify your family group. This might help those who are researching their family from one of the areas identified. You can leave a comment giving the location of your JONES family. Anyone that shares this location, may a direct connection. The JONES family locations are:

Hereford, 1690, and 1823,

Denbigh (North Wales)

Ireland: Ulster, Sligo,

Somerset, London, Oxford, Lancaster, York, Rutland, Middlesex, and Worcester,

Montgomery, Monmouth, and Merinoneth in Wales.

Any JONES families out there? Please join in the fun!

More JONES Families

The number of JONES families that have a coat of arms recorded by Burke before 1840, demonstrate the diversity of the surname. An analysis of these arms show the numbers and locations of many that do not share a Y-chromosome. This post continues the listings for families that have "a lion ramp." (rampant) for a symbol. (charge) Some share the same coat of arms, and some show variation in tinctures (colors of symbol and shield). They are:

Jones of Somerset (Kelston Park): "erm. a lion ramp. az." [a blue lion on a fur shield]

Jones of Worcester: "ar. a lion ramp. gu." [ a red lion of silver shield]

Four that share, "or. a lion ramp. gu." [a red lion with gold shield]

Jones of Oxford
Jones of Oxford and Berks
Jones of Monmouth and Worcester
Jones of Denbigh

Eleven families that share, "or. a lion ramp. az." [ a blue lion with gold shield ]

Jones of Hereford - Sugwas, Poulstone, Cleve, and Mountcraig
Jones of Middlesex (Stratford, Bow)
Jones of Middlesex and Hereford
Jones of Gloucester
Jones of Somerset
Jones of Lancaster
Jones of York
Jones of Rutland
Jones of London
Jones of Merinoneth
Jones of Merinoneth, Dol-yn- Edrienion

Perhaps starting points for several Y-chromosomes!

Family Groupings

A recent post on my Jones Surname blogspot, introduced The Jones Classification System. Using the Jones surname cost(s) of arms, the families that were responsible for producing at least one JONES surname (family) were shown. This used the "primary charge" and "colors" recorded for the folks having coat of arms before 1840 England, Ireland, and Wales. They were then linked to their ancestors family which would place a starting point for their Y-chromosome. Thus a series of families have been identified that represent the origins of many Jones surnames. Family groupings [those that used the symbol "a lion rampant"] can then be identified. The first sets of families are as follows:

House of Trevor , North Wales

House of Bleddyn ap Cynfyn, North Wales [ Three sons each produce a JONES line.]

Jones of Hereford, 1690

Jones of Denbigh, North Wales

Jones of Sligo (Ireland)

Jones of Ulster 1661, Ireland

Jones of Somerset

Jones of Hereford 1823 [ a distinct line from above ]

Jones of Ulster (Ireland)

Jones of Montgomery

Jones of London

and much more to come.

The study was first published in my newsletter The Jones Genealogist, Vol.VIII, No.3, Sept/Oct 1996. Some of these families could share the same Y-chromosome, but many are not genetically related.

Thirteen Surnames Y-chromosome Connected

Much has been written to shown that those who share the surname JONES are not always related by the Y-chromosome. For my own Y-chromosome, there are many "other" surnames that shared a direct match to my 12-marker test. [See post "Well, It's About Time", May 2, 2011.] The Welsh surnames that do share my Y-chromosome have been presented in a general sense on the post entitled, "Associated Surname", Jan.1, 2011. [Under Blog, http;//thejonessurname.blogspot.com.] The following post will give the connections for these surnames that share my Y-chromosome.

My JONES family begins in the Welsh genealogies with Tudor Trevor (JC-1). [See post, "Tudor Trevor", Dec. 27, 2010, under the blog: The Jones Surname.] His children are given in the post of January 26, 2011, under the title: "The Children of Tudor Trevor". The branches of these generation are given in a series of posts coded by the colors "Pink", "Orange", and "Blue" to help keep all the later generations identified as to their beginnings.

Only two sons of Tudor Trevor (JC-1) produce male descent; the second son, Llydocka (Llyddocka) (JD-2), and the baby of the family, Dingad (JD-3). Those who share this Y-chromosome by surname are listed below. The documentation for each surname is found in Dwnn, volume II, with the page numbers given.

First through Llydocka(JD-2):

1) Edwards, D(II) p. 327, 2) Eytyn, D(II), p.358, 3) Moiston, D(II), p. 307, 4) Trevor, D(II) p. 307, 328, 5) Young, D(II), p. 314, 6) Lewis, D(II), p. 325, 7) Dymock, D(II), p. 313, 8) Deckaf, D(II), p. 357, and 9) Eton, D(II), p. 360.

Second through Dingad(JD-3):

1) Eytyn, D(II), p. 358, 2) Pennant, D(II), p. 308, 3) Lloyd, D(II), pp. 348, 23, 362, and Broughton, D(II), p. 315.

Thirteen surnames recorded in Dwnn. Anyone connected?

Dwnn, L., Heraldic Visitations of Wales and Part of the Marches, Vol. I, Vol. II, Welsh MSS. Society, Llandovery, 1846.

Jones Surname DNA : A Haplogroup Hypothesis

A hypothesis is defined as a tentative assumption made in order to draw out and test its logical or empirical (based on observation or experience) consequences. Having my DNA tested, I have observed the results in a variety of settings. See the following post: 1) "Where Our Genealogy Begins", Oct. 26, 2010, 2) "Basic Principles", Nov. 5, 2010, 3) "Causes of Mutation", Nov. 13, 2010, 4) "Our Address Book", Nov. 19, 2010, 5) "Terms, Terms, and More Terms", Dec. 22, 2010, 6) "The Gene Tree, Haplogroups", Dec. 30, 2010, 7) "Haplogroups to Haplotypes", Jan. 2, 2011, 8) "Haplogroups by Geography", Jan. 10, 2011, 9) "Dominate Haplogroups by Geography", Jan. 15, 2011, 10) "The Rift Valley", Jan. 20, 2011, 11) "On Up The Valley", Jan. 26, 2011, 12) "Melting Pot and Launching Pad", Jan. 29, 2011, 13) "R1b1b", Feb. 2, 2011, 14) "The Delta of the Danube", Feb. 6, 2011, 15) "A Horse", Feb. 10, 2011, 16) "Show me the money!", Feb. 15, 2011, 17) "Celtic R1b1", Feb. 20, 2011, 17) "The Celtic Tongues", Feb. 22, 2011, 18) "Celtic DNA Among the Islands", Feb. 25, 2011, 19) "Celtic Tribes to Welsh Tribes", Mar. 2, 2011, 20) "According to the Story", Mar. 14, 2011, 21) "Well, It's About Time", May 2, 2011, 22) "The Right Branch", May 7, 2011, 23) "The Next Panels", May 11, 2011, 24) "Markers, Markers, and more Markers", May 16, 2011, 25) "Those Other Jones", May 20, 2011, 26) "Where in the World?", June 1, 2011, 27) "Most Recent Common Ancestor (MRCA)", June 5, 2011, 28) "Tag Your It", June 9, 2011, 29) "Lining Folks Up", June 13, 2011, 30) "The Jones Surname: Not Genetic but Phonetic", June 18, 2011, and 31) "Multiple Roots", June 22, 2011.

Whew...what a list! All leading to the following hypothesis.

Genetically, by DNA, the JONES surname has multiple origins. Sharing the JONES surname does not mean that we come from a common ancestor. On the contrary, having the JONES surname means we are more likely not related by surname, but by a series of historical events leading to the surname. [See under blog http://thejonessurname.blogspot.com, "Impact, The Act of Union 1536", Feb. 24, 2011.] For those of us who do carry the surname, it would appear that we do share the following haplogroups.

First, haplogroup P seems to be a common root for all those with the haplogroup R. I would suspect this represents the Proto-Indo-European language group dating genetically from around 35,000 years ago. Haplogroup R appears around 30,000 years ago as the roots of the Indo-European languages, clustering around the Black Sea area. R1b, forming a linguistic branch ca. 25,000 years ago, most likely being the Celtic-Ital0-Tocharia branch. Arriving in central Europe, the R1b1, and the R1a split into the Proto-Celtic (us), and Balto-Slavo-Germanic groups (them). Moving along the Iberian peninsula and onto the island (Albion), the Brythonic branch R1b1a evolved into the Welsh R1b1a2.

Now, if you analyze those who have joined the JONES surname DNA group [at my analysis, 275 folks had joined], 78% had the haplogroup R. [R1b1 76%, R1a 2%]. Of those remaining, 11% had the haplogroup I [those Vikings]. Haplogroup E [African Americans?] showed 6%. Haplogroup G, 3% [Asia Minor], and haplogroup J, 2% [Middle East] made up the rest joining the JONES DNA group. Only one showed Q. [Native American].

So there you have it. Haplogroup R for most of us. Haplogroup R1b [76%] , with my JONES DNA R1b12a. [Haplotype in 92% of a Welsh study group!]

Please post any comments?

Multiple Roots

The English system of heraldry is well established. The origins are based upon the fact that a man in full armour was unrecognizable. Since full armour was usually worn with the intent of inflicting great bodily harm at very close quarters, it was necessary to know who was on the "giving" and the "receiving" ends of the conflict. Therefore, each man wore a distinctive coat by which he could be recognized. [As you know, this became known as the coat "of arms".] These distinctive symbols were displayed on banners, horse cloth, and shield. It was often the case that if one had been dismembered and disfigured beyond recognition, this coat was the only means of identity.

The organizational system for arranging these distinctive symbols (called blazoning, assigning, and marshalling coat armour) became the "rules" of heraldry. In principle no two men in the same region could wear exactly the same coat of arms. [Did not want to get all those bodies mixed up.] Over time, these symbols became personal marks of the owner's possessions, and since few people could read in those days, they also became a type of visual communication.

The figure above shows those JONES families who had coat armour before 1870. They are present by the English and Welsh counties from which they resided as recorded in Burke's General Armory of 1884. On pages 546-549, there are 108 JONES families listed with coat armour. These have also been listed by the counties they represented in the table below in England, Wales, and Ireland. [Those that could be identified by county.]

The highest number of families are to found in London with seven. This is followed by Hereford and Carmarthen with six. There are a fair number of counties with five, most being "border" counties such as Monmouth, Salop, Worcester, Denbigh, and Flint. Dublin and Ulster in Ireland had five each.

Sixty one coat of arms were found in England. Thirty one coat of arms were found in Wales. Fourteen coat of arms were found in Ireland. All these were recorded before Burke was published in 1884.

Most of these arms had distinctive blazoning thus representing different JONES families. This will be discussed in future posts. For now, there are multiple roots to this JONES surname!

The map and table was taken from The Jones Genealogist, Vol. VIII, No.1, 1996, p.4 and p. 6.

The analysis of coat armour was taken from The General Armory of England, Scotland, Ireland and Wales; comprising A Registry of Armorial Bearings From The Earliest to The Present Time, by Bernard Burke, Ulster King of Arms, Harrison, London, 1884.

The Jones Surname: Not Genetic but Phonetic

The Jones Surname is perhaps one of the most difficult surnames to trace out the family tree. An understanding of its origin has helped clarify the DNA roots and the various factors which have influenced the beginnings of this surname.

A variety of post at several blogs have shown that the origin of the JONES surname is due to the English transliteration of the Welsh spelling of "John". This Christian name was introduced into Wales before 500 AD. It was the old English (Anglo-Saxon) spelling that was transliterated into the English legal system that became the spelling JONES. [Under the Act of Union 1536.] This produced a great number of families taking the JONES surname which were not genetically related. This means that today, there are many who share the surname JONES, but are not genetically related. This explains why so many DNA results do not match. Our Y-chromosomes are not the same. This also means that there is not a single genetic beginning of the JONES surname, but many different family sources, most having their origins in Wales.

These various historical, linguistic, cultural, and religious factors have been presented based upon my research of more than 50 years.

Under the blog - http://thejonessurname.blogspot.com see the following posts:

"The Beginnings", July 31, 2010.
"The Name of John", Sept. 12, 2010.
"Why JOHN", Sept. 14, 2010.
"How do you spell JOHN", Sept. 16, 2010.
"IOAN", Sept. 18, 2010.
"Belief Systems", Oct. 18, 2010.
"Tudor Trevor", Dec. 27, 2010.
"Associated Surnames", Jan. 1, 2011.
"My JONES Family Coding System", Jan. 19, 2011.
"The Children of Tudor Trevor", Jan. 26, 2011.
"Early Welsh Descendants", Feb. 4, 2011.
"Taking the surname JONES", Feb. 23, 2011.
"Impact, The Act of Union 1536", Feb. 24, 2011.
"The Domesday Book and John", Feb. 26, 2011.
"A Precarious Position", Mar. 5, 2011.
"1st To Record", Mar. 15, 2011.
"Early English Records and the Jones Surname", Mar. 24, 2011.
"The First JONES Surname in English Records", Mar. 28, 2011.
"Matilda Jones - The First Jones", Apr. 1, 2011.
"On and On it Goes", Apr. 7, 2011.
"Number Two Jones", Apr 12, 2011.
"Ancient Petitions A Transition Period", Apr. 18, 2011.
"Welsh Names in English Records 1301 AD", Apr. 23, 2011.
"Norman Names", Apr. 30, 2011.
"Saxon Name Calling", May 4, 2011.
"Dane Lands", May 8, 2011.
"Welsh Birth Names 1301 AD", May 12, 2011.
"Jones Surname 1273 - 1500 in England and Wales", May 17, 2011.
"Jones Surname in Wales after 1500 AD", May 21, 2011.
"Jones Surname in England and Wales 1500-1700". June 2, 2011.
"Phonetic Not Genetic", June 6, 2011.
"Genetic Bowel of Spaghetti", June 10, 2011.
"Jones Surname By English Monarchs 1485-1714", June 14, 2011.

Lining Folks Up

Having discussed the concept of the most recent common ancestor, and presented my JONES family genealogy and DNA results, I thought it might be helpful to try and put it all together. If you were to match my pattern of DNA, you can then follow the line up as outlined.

For anyone who has a 67/67 marker match, this would suggest that we share my 6th generation grandfather Thomas Jones (JY-6). He was born 1796 in Virginia, and came to Kentucky with his family in 1811. He did have a bunch of brothers (at least six) so there is a lot of this Y-chromosome going around.

A 37/37 exact match would go back to my 7th generation grandfather, Nicholas Jones (JX-33) who was the father of Thomas (JY-6). He was born 1762 in Caroline Co., Virginia, fought in the Revolutionary War, and brought his family to Kentucky in 1811. Not much difference in a 67/67 match, and the 37/37 exact match.

The 25/25 exact match goes back to my 13th generation grandfather Thomas Jones (JR-180) of Llanfair-Dyffry-Clwyd, Denbighsire, Wales. He was active during the 1550s, being a student at Christ Church, Oxford, 1555. The family moved to Rochcester around 1598, and brought its Y-chromosome to the county of Kent.

A 12/12 exact match launches us back to my 29th generation grandfather Ynyn ap Gadforch (JB-1). He was active 850-900 AD, being the father of Tudor Trevor (JC-1). This branch of the family had been settled along Wat's Dyke for many generations.

So there you have our most recent common ancestors, all lined up. North Wales, to the county Kent, to the shores of Virginia, to the Bluegrass of Kentucky. Any matches?

Tag Your It

Recent changes in the classifications of my haplotype, R1b1b to R1b1a2, made for some interesting additional questions. What in the world does this mean!?...was the first. I had spent a fair amount of time shifting through the data on R1b1b. It pointed me to Wales. What does this change do?

The International Society of Genetic Genealogy (ISOGG) and Family Tree DNA (FTDNA) seemed to have a slightly different view. Apparently it was FTDNA that first made the changes in their haplotype classification. [Where I had my DNA tested.] This was based upon the identification (clarification) of a specific sub-group [called "sub-clade"] of R1b. This sub-group demonstrated (dominated by) a specific genetic marker tagged R-m412. It was found on those who carried the R1b1b marker tagged R-m269. This sub-group [sub-clade ] was found in Wales 92.3 % of the 65 people studied! Wow, I made it home! This change in classification showed that my genealogy work of more than 50 years was again supported. My genes exposed. Another change is possible before all this gets straighten out. Tag your it!

Most Recent Common Ancestor (MRCA)

Come one, come all. Get your DNA done! A 12-marker..., 25-marker..., 37-marker..., or even a 67-marker marker match is magic and magnificent! [Even more markers are now available.] Put your money down, spin the wheel, and find your ancestors. Its easy! Its fun! Step right up!

So goes the buzz. The DNA dimension of genealogy has exploded upon the stage. The problem is, many of the DNA products do not explain what the results will show until you have done the testing. How much money do you want to spend? How many markers should you do? Who are my ancestors anyway? Will I find my long lost relatives?

The chart to the right tries to show approximately what the DNA tests results demonstrate. For a 12-marker test, an exact match shows that you would share a common ancestor some 29 generations past. [Using 35 years/generation would be roughly 1015 years] Wow, I share, with my matches, a common ancestor some 1,000 years ago. Now if you have an exact 25-marker test, you would share a common ancestor some 13 generations ago. Let's see, that would bring you to (13 x 35) 455 years ago. This cuts in half the number of years from our common ancestor. Humm...a 37-marker exact match would place our common ancestor 7 generations back. Wow, only (7 x 35) 245 years. Just about the close of the French and Indian War in America. Now an exact 67-marker test would place our common ancestor just 6 generations back. That is roughly 210 years. (6 x 35) Wow, that is around 1800. At least some census data exist for most of the states. So, not much difference between the 37-marker and 67-marker tests. [Except for the money.]

So there you have it. [Plus or minus 5%.] A 67-marker test (exact match) can bring you to 1800. Step right up.

Where in the World?

My Jones surname DNA had 26 exact 12 marker matches. Where in the world are they? An exact 12 marker test showed that our most recent common ancestor (MRCA) was some 29 generations ago! [95% chance] Who in this world has their genealogy traced back 29 generations?

Being an exception to the rule, my years of genealogy research [now 51 years], has traced my family's line back 53 generations. Given in a series of previous posts, starting with "The Beginnings (generations 1-5)" [March 23, 2011] and ending with "Finally There (generation 45 - "Pap paw" [April 29, 2011], the generations are presented. My 29th generation grandfather is Ynyr ap Gadforch (JB-1). This would take our common ancestor back to around 900 A.D.! He was the father of Tudor Trevor (JC- 1) who is given credit for "founding" our tribe.

Of the 26 exact 12 marker test the following was found:

Scotland = 5 matches

England = 4 matches

Germany = 3 matches

France, Ireland, Netherlands, Turkey, United Kingdom = 2 match each

Wales, Ukraine, Slovakia, and Albania = 1 match each.

Wow, what a number of countries that share my 12 marker test. Ynyr ap Gadforch descendants sure got around!

Now there were many, many more who matched 11/12 markers. This would go back to generation 47. In my family tree this would be Enid (Jq-1) going back to the early days of Roman occupation! [ca. 150 - 200 A.D.] From this ancestor, there were 168 "1-step" in Ireland, 156 in England, 122 in Scotland, 88 United Kingdom, 66 Germany, 36 Netherlands, 36 France, 22 Wales, 19 Spain, 13 Italy, and 11 Switzerland.

My R1b1b2 [now classified R1b1a2]...it is definitely in the world.

Those Other Jones

An additional 275 individuals were participating in the JONES surname DNA group that I had joined. Only two of these matched my 12 marker Panel! What in the world...at least the genealogy world? If we all came from a common ancestor [the first "Adam" Jones], why did not more of us match at the 12 marker testing?

The first question was what was the haplogroups that all these JONES belong? I abstracted the following :

Of the 275 individuals who had joined the Jones surname group, 235 had haplogroups listed. Of these, 209 [76%] were R1b1! [At least most of us shared a common haplogroup.]

The remaining haplogroups were: R1a = 2%, I = 11%, E = 6%, G = 3%, J = 2% and Q = 1/235. Thus, haplogroup R [R1b and R1a] made up 78% of us in the group. Haplogroup I [Scandinavian] were 11%. Haplogroup E were 6% [Central Africa]. Haplogroup G were 3% [Asia Minor]. Halogroup J were 2%. [Middle East]. Only one individual was haplogroup Q [Native American].

To compare this to Wales! [for haplogroup distribution.]

JONES - R1b 76 % I1 - 11% G - 3% E - 6% R1a - 2% J - 2%

WALES- R1b 82% I1 - 6% G - 4% E - 2% R1a - 2% J - 1.5% I2b - 1% T - 1%.

Wow, pretty good match! More to come.

Markers, Markers, and more Markers

Panel 4 [38-67] returned. A lot more numbers; Alleles, DYS#, and Locus were all over the place. Now what? No exact matches. A bunch of numbers all in a row. Let's see if one can sort this all out.

As best as I understand it, my DNA to 67 markers is uniquely mine. The first 12 markers [Panel 1] showed that there were 26 others that had an exact match with mine, and one person was off 1 marker. [11/12 match]. Of the 26, only two were JONES! Panel 2 [markers 13-25] showed only three folks who almost matched. Two with 24/25 and one with 23/25. The two Joneses hung in there, and only a Person remained. By Panel 3 [ 26-37 markers], only one Jones remained at 35/37 markers. By my Panel 4 [38-67], all folks had left the building. Now what does all this mean?

One Jones, matched 11/12 showed that we shared a common ancestor some 47 generations ago. [95% probability]. The exact match at 12/12 brought this down to generation 29. A pretty good move. An exact 25/25 match would bring the generation down to 13, but only two matched at 24/25, and one matched 23/25. The best here is for a Jones and Person going back 20 generations. The one Jones that matched 23/25 would go back to generation 27. By Panel 3, only one Jones remained, showing a 35/37 match bring us down to the 14th generation. If I had an exact match on the 67 markers, it would show that our most recent common ancestor was 6 generations back! Wow, after all this, I could only go 6 generations back. As it stands now, those sharing their DNA information that matches my Jones family goes back 12 - 14 generations.

For the genealogist, I give the following figures as an estimate of how to use the DNA panel results:

12/12 exact match would go back 29 generations [95%], 23 generations for 90 %.

25/25 exact match would go back 13 generations [95%], 10 generations for 90%.

37/37 exact match would go back 7 generations [95%], 5 generations for 90%.

67/67 exact match would go back 6 generations [95%], 4 generations for 90%.

My haplogroup is R1b. My haplotype is R1b1a2.

Now what about all those other Joneses who did not match? More to come.

The Next Panels

In a short time, results for panel 2 [13-25 markers] and panel 3 [26 -37 markers] returned. A whole lot of numbers flashed before my eyes. There were no exact matches for this set of DNA markers. Only two matches were found at a "Genetic Distance - 1", and only one match for a "Genetic Distance -2". This meaning that for two folks in this data base, they have 24 out 25 matches [for genetic distance one], and one has 23 out of 25 sites match. Only Jones and Pearson remained from the first twelve marker test.

As I read the probability graphs sent with this information, it would appear that my "Genetic Distance - 1" folks had a 95% chance that we shared a grandfather back to 16 - 20 generations. This moved us closer by 4 - 8 generations. Still, not many folks would have their genealogy back 16 generations. For the "Genetic Distance - 2" it would means a 95% chance that we had a common ancestor at the 23 - 27 generation back. Essentially this was no difference from the 12-marker exact matches! What was one to do? Perhaps the last panels would help, but the light in the tunnel was fading. What about the rest of the testing, panel 4, markers 38 - 67? Time will tell.

My results for panel 2 and panel 3 are available to anyone who would like to compare results. Please leave a comment with an e-mail and we can share results.

The Right Branch

While waiting for the results of the next DNA panels [panel 2 (13-25), panel 3 (26 - 37)] an e-mail was sent to all those who had a 12-marker exact match. It read:

"Hello All,
This is sort of a group letter to those who match my DNA panel 1-12. Pretty amazing stuff to find that so many (25 listed) match exactly. We must all share a common ancestor with some fairly uncommon surnames, at least compared to mine JONES! My family has been in Kentucky (USA) for 200 years. We came to KY from Virginia (USA) were we arrived in 1649. We were supporters of Charles I and needed to make a speedy exit following his beheading. Prior to this we were in the London (Gray's Inn) and Rochester area around 1599. Before this we were from Wales in the Valley of Dee, beginning from around 850 AD. My 24th generation grandfather was Ninnian ap Cynrig (around 1050 AD) who resided in the area called Maelor Cymraeg. According to the information as I understand it now, this would be our common ancestor. Does any of this match your own family history? I would love to correspond with any who have an interest."

So I waited. Six e-mails returned as not active. Of the remaining 19, only two responded. The JONES of course, and a Pritchard.

I had not examined the surname Pritchard, but we shared some family information. Most amazing was the fact that a family of Pritchard originated in the same area of Wales with connection to related families! [A description is given Dwnn, Vol. II, p. 163.] How about that I thought, I must be on the right branch of my family tree after all.

Well, It's About Time

As a genealogist, having my own DNA analyzed was at first a hard decision to make. I had spent 50 years reseaching my family tree using the old library method, and blood hound techniques. This produced results that I felt were pretty accurate. Or were they? DNA was to prove me right or wrong? What if all my research proved to be wrong? I had traced my JONES surname back to Wales. What if DNA showed I was from China? Oh man, maybe I sould leave this DNA stuff alone?

It took several years to decide to go ahead and have my DNA tested. It only took a couple of months to get the results. Twenty five exact matches for my 12-marker test! I've hit the jackpot! Well let's see who are these folks? There is a Claxton, Amshoff, Boyle, Tilton, Mauradoglu(x2), Dohanrich, Sharp(x2), Gilmore, Welrich, Johnson(x2), Prichard, Gill(x2), Leonard, Pearson, Maudire-Janton, Fournier, and only one other JONES! What in the world? I had never heard of most of these surnames! How could I have exact 12-marker DNA.

An explaination which came with the results stated: "...if you match another person exactley with the same surname or a variant, you have a 99.9% likelihood of sharing a common ancestor with that person." This information went on to say, "This individual is described scientifically as the Most Recent Common Ancestor (MRCA)." A graph was included that gave an estimate of how long ago this common ancestor lived. The graph showed that on a 12/12 match, "...a 90% probablity that the MRCA lived no longer than 23 generations"! There was a 95% probabitity that the MRCA lived no longer 29 generations.

No longer than 23 generations! Not many folks would have their genealogy past 6-8 generations. Maybe the next series of DNA markers will help? Well maybe, it's not about time yet?

My 12-marker test as reported:

Locus 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12

DYS# 393 390 19 391 385a 385b 426 388 439 389-1 392 389-2

Alleles 13 24 14 12 11 14 12 12 12 13 13 30


For an explaination of these terms see my post "Terms, Terms, and more Terms", Wednesday, December 22, 2010.

Finally There (generation 45 - "Pap paw")

Finally there! Griffin Jones, Sr.(JV-162) resided in Caroline Co., VA, down to Joseph Wheeler Jones [Pap paw](JAB-1). All of these ancestors have been discussed in posts on thejonesgenealogist.blogspot.com.

Griffin Jones, Sr. (JV-162):

"Nose to the Ground", March 13, 2011.

"Social Roles", February 14, 2011.

"Ping-Pong Genealogy", December 17, 201o.

Griffin Jones, Jr. (JW-89):

"Unusual Places", December 15, 2010.

"Leaves on the Tree", December 8, 2010.

"A Road Map", December 5. 2010.

"Making a Trip", December 4, 2010.

"Road to Caroline Co., VA", November 22, 2010.

"Brick Walls", November 17, 2010.

Nicholas Jones (JX-33):

"Handwriting from History", November 11, 2010.

"Baptist", November 9, 2010.

"Generations", November 6, 2010.

Thomas Jones (JY-6):

"Farmer Jones", October 18, 2010.

"4 Mile Creek", October 13, 2010.

William Carter Jones [W.C.](JZ-5);

"Silent Slumber", October 8, 2010.

"20 Years Later", October 5, 2010. [Picture]

Edward Turner Jones [E.T.](JAA-3)

"E.T. phone home", September 24, 2010.

"Pap paw's Parents", September 23, 2010.

"E.T. Phoned Home", October 9, 2010.

Joseph Wheeler Jones [Pap paw](JAB-1):

"Casting Shadows", January, 8, 2011.

"Pap paw's Picture", September 21, 2010.

"A picture from the past", September 4, 2010.

"A Glass Eye", August 6, 2010.

"A New Mystery", August 5, 2010

"Louder Than Words", July 14, 2010.

Fifty one generations are listed. With me, makes 53! I hope to explore in future post, the DNA of my Y-chromosome as it goes back these generations.

Almost There (Generation 38 - 45)

The diagram to the right continues my JONES family tree. Starting with Robert (J0-1) who marries Margaret Eyton of Rhuabon(J0-2), it continues another seven generations to Griffin Jones, Sr.(JV-162) of Caroline Co., VA. It is at generation 40, Richard ap John ap Robert (JQ-95) where our JONES surname begins. Richard (JQ-95) is found at Llanfair 1558. This is an area just below Ruthin. His son, Thomas Jones (JR-180) continues the JONES surname. It is Richard Jones (JS-165), the grandson of the first Richard Jones (JQ-95) that is forced to leave England 1648 when Charles I looses his head! Cadwallader Jones (JT-143) becomes the first to settle along the Rappahannock River in Virginia 1673 and leads to all kinds of trouble. [Much more to come about Cadwallader(JT-143)! John Jones (JU-145) and his son Griffin Jones, Sr.(JV-162) remain upon the lands that were to become Caroline Co., VA. We are almost to Kentucky, my homeland. We are almost there.

Down the Line (generation 31 - 38)

From around 1140 AD, a younger son of Jeuaf(JH-1) becomes the first of Llyn-Onn. [Llwynynn] This remains a family center, which generations to come would be associated. The maternal sides becomes more informative as the geographic locations are defined. Bersham, Pengwern, and Rhuabon were lands which were around Llyn-Onn. [LLwynynn] This name was given to a summer home at Llanfair-David-Clwyd, and a winter home just east of Wrexham. Generation 31 through generation 38, down to Robert ap Edward (JO-1). Wow, keep own coming down the line.

Keep on Going (generation 24 - 31)

The figure to the right continues the male descent for my Jones family. By now many might be staying, "you've got to be kidding me"...right? Well I have often thought the same thing. How in the world can one draw such a lineage? The documentation will be given in future posts, but I wanted to give the "documented" lineage in sequence for those who would like a uncluttered family tree.

Gadforch (JA-1) flourished around 850 AD. His grandson, Tudor Trevor (JC-1), is documented in an Anglo-Saxon charter 934 AD. Dingad(JD-3) is the baby of the family, and it is through his branch that my JONES family descends. I will continue to give the direct line until my generation on the next few posts. I will then present my DNA to try and connect the dots. Let's keep on going.

Moving on Up (generation 18 - 24)

My family Y-chromosome is continued in the figure to the right. Generation 18, Gwnnan(Jf-1), to generation 24, Cadfarch (JA-1) is shown. The previous posts start with the founding father Manogan (Jw-1) and proceed to the twenty fourth generation. Cadfarch (JA-1) is the grandfather of Tudor Trevor (JC-1) which brings us full circle to the family of Tudor Trevor (JC-1). My DNA is R1b1b2 which has been been regrouped into R1b1a2. I am not sure what these changes will mean, but more to come as this new classification is unfolded. All those R1b1s join in the fun.

Vortiger Onward (generations 11 - 18)

My genealogy continues through Vortiger, who for the most part got blamed for everything that was felt to go wrong after the Romans left the island. Much of this story has been presented under my blog called "The Jones Surname". If interested, you can go to this blog site thejonessurname.blogspot.com and read about the family written by those in the church who had something to say about this Y-chromosome. [Starting with "Who's on First?", Monday, October 11, 2011.] The generations shown to the right are given in their simplest form as given in the Welsh in Dwnn, Vol. I, pp. xv-xvi. Please remember you can right click on the figure to enlarge it. You will need to do this in order to read my writing.

The Next Generations (generations 5 - 11)

The Y-chromosome continues through the next generations as shown to the right. Starting with Enddolan (Js-2) at the top of the figure, the next six generations are shown down to Vortiger (Jm-1) [Gwrtheyrn in the Welsh]. From the first generation known, Manogan (Jw-1), to Vortiger (Jm-1), there is a total of 16 generations. This group of Y-chromosomes would roughly represent 450 years, defining approximately 41 years per generation. [450/11]. This would be the time of Roman occupation. [Roughly 50 B.C. to 400 A.D.] Much more to come.

The Beginnings (generations 1-5)

The first five generations of my Y-chromosome lineage is shown in the figure to the right. Starting with Manogan(Jw-1); the descent is through Beli mawr(Jv-1); the fourth son, Llefelys [Afflech](Ju-1); on through Afallah(Jt-1); to the fifth generation, Enddolan(Js-1)...a good fifth generation Celtic family group. The coding process is an extension of the first Jones surname coding system described in a previous post which began with Gadvorch(JA-1). [See: My JONES Family Coding System, Wednesday, January 19, 2011, under The Jones Surname blog spot.]

When I started this system some twenty years ago, I thought I had gotten as far back as I could go. As time would tell, there were a few generations yet to be uncovered. Thus, to go farther back in time, I would use the same coding 0nly using small case letters for representing the earlier generations. Thus Manogan is 22 generations ( small a- to small -v) back in time from Gadvorch (JA-1)! [capital letters used to code for each generation from Gadvorch.]

The documentation is from the earliest Welsh literature. A discussion of this literature is given in the introduction to a translation of "The Mabinogion" by the Jones boys, Gwyn and Thomas. On page 75 is given the start of the family in an account titled "Lludd and Llefelys". A very insightfull account of this literature is also given in a book titled "The Fates of The Princes of Dyfed" by Cenydd Morus. These references are given more formerly as:

Jones, G., Jones,T., The Mabingogion", Everyman, J.M. Dent, London, 1949.

Morus,C.,"The Fate of the Princes of Dyfed", Theosophical Book Co., London, 1914.

According to the Story

My Y-chromosome DNA certainly has its origin in the mist that shrouds the mountains of present day Wales. The Celtic tribal groups that occupied the island first called Albion, seemed to be the most likely source of this DNA. [see post Celtic R1b1, Sunday, February 20, 2011.] The Cornovii, Demetae, and Ordovices all had something to do with it. At the time of the first record keepers (the Romans), they had already settled the Celtic society among the occupied territories. The Mabinogion identifies Beli mawr as a leading figure among this culture, and the translation by Gwyn Jones and Thomas Jones states:

"To Beli the Great, son of Manogan, were three sons: Lludd and Caswallawn and Nyniaw; and according to the story a fourth son of his was Llefelys." (p. 75)

It is through this forth son Llefelys (Afflech in Dwnn), that my direct JONES line is descended. This lineage is given in great detail in Dwnn, Vol.I, pp. xv-xvi., to the Welsh tribal group of Tudor Trevor, which has been given in my blog "The Jones Surname", [ the post: Tudor Trevor, Monday, December 27, 2010.] This is followed by a number of posts that give this lineage using a coding system to help follow this genealogy. This family line comes through Vortiger (Gwrtheirn Gwrthenau) who gets blamed for much of the troubles brought on by those folks called the Saxons. To put this lineage together has taken a little more than 50 years.

Geographical Orientation

From around the world, more than 35 countries have joined the reading of these posts. It has occurred to me, that many in these various countries may not know geographically, where Wales is actually located. The map to the right is intended to show the geographic location of Wales in relationship to Ireland, Scotland, and England. It is a land area just over 8,000 square miles, hooked to the west side of the main island called England. Hopefully, this will help give a view of this little part of the world with a long history.



The figure is taken from: The Jones Genealogist, Vol.III, No.5, Jan/Feb, 1992. You can enlarge the figure by left clicking on the image. Hope this is helpful.

Celtic Tribes to Welsh Tribes

Translating the Celtic tribal groups [see Celtic R1b1, 20 Feb., 2001] to the Welsh tribal groups is the purpose of this post. This will hopefully give a "visual" picture of the origins of the Welsh tribes and a general view of the inter-relationships between them. The first table gives the geographic locations for the Royal and Noble Tribes of Wales. [These are recorded in "The General Armory of England, Scotland, Ireland, and Wales", by Burke, Harrison and Sons, London, 1884, pp. lxi-lxvi.] First is listed the title of the tribe, i.e., "Noble Tribe X". Next is listed a geographic area that the tribe seems to have originated. Third, is listed the "founding father" of the tribe.



The next figure shows a map of Wales and the general geographic location of these Welsh tribes. The "Royal" tribes occupied the major divisions (states = gwlad). The "Nobel" tribes are scattered about. A JONES surname is derived from many of these Welsh tribal groups!














The table and map are taken from The Jones Genealogist, Vol.IV, No.5, Jan/Feb, 1993, pp. 4-6.

Celtic DNA Among the Islands

The distribution of DNA markers among the islands are shown in the figure to the right. Each county studied so far has a slightly different pattern. Wales (Anglesey), shows the R1b1b haplotype at 89%, with just at 8% for the I haplogroup. Thus 97% of of the DNA studied fall within these two groups. [I suspect the I haplogroup is the Viking blood!] The Irish have the next highest percent of R1b1b at 82%. However, their E1b1b (2%) and their R1a1 (< 1%). The Scots show 77% R1b1b and haplogroup I at 11%. [More of that Viking blood!] The Scots show 7% R1a, which would indicate more of that Anglo-Saxon influence. The English range 62-69% R1b1b. A 9% R1a is the highest among this group.

The Celtic Tongues

The Celtic tribal groups that settled among the islands (Hibernia, Albion, and Isle of Man) scattered about and formed their own distinct languages. Hibernia (Ireland) was the seat of the Q-Celtic tongue, and Albion (Britain) was the seat of the P-Celtic tongue. The figure to the right shows a diagram of the rough chronology the roots of these tongues. The "Gaelic" tongues include Irish, Scottish, and Manx. The "Brythonic" tongues include Welsh, Cornish, and Breton. They all share a common root back to the Celts that occupied central Europe. What a deal!

The following reference have been most helpful in the study of this chronology:

1) The Celtic World, Edited by, Miranda J. Green, first published in paper back 1996, Routledge, London.

2) The Celtic Empire, The First Millinnium of Celtic History 1000 BC - 51 AD, by Peter Ellis, Carolina Academic Press, Durham, NC, 1990.

3) The Celtic Realms, The History and The Culture of The Celtic Peoples From Pre-History To The Norman Invasion, by Myles Dillion and Nora Chadwick, Castle Book, Edison, NJ, 2006.

4) The Ancient World of the Celts, by Peter Ellis, Barnes & Noble Books, NY, 1998.

5) Historical Atlas of the Celtic World, by Angus Konstam, Mercury Books, London, 2001.

6) The Celts, Uncovering the Mythic and Historic Origins of Western Culture, by Jean Markale, Inner Traditions International, Rochester, VT, 1978. [first published in French, Les Celts et al Civilisation Celtique, 1976.]

7) Celtic Britain, by Lloyd Laing, Charles Scribner's Sons, NY, 1979.

8) Celtic Ornament in the British Isles, by E.T. Leeds, Dover Publications, Inc., NY, 2002.

9) A Picture Book of Ancient British Art, by Stuart Piggott, and Glyn Daniel, Cambridge, At The University Press, 1951.

10) The Life and Death of A Druid Prince, by Anne Ross and Don Robins, Touchstone, NY, 1989.

11) The Story of The Isle of Man, Vol. 1, The Earliest Time to 1406, by C.W. Airne, Liverpool, 1949.

Celtic R1b1

It was iron and the secret of iron-making that gave the Celtic folks a leg up on those who first occupied the island. The oldest iron artifact yet to be found on the island dates from around 600 B.C. Found in the territory of a tribe called the Silures, it represents the fact that my Y-DNA arrived to the south of what has become Wales. Other Celtic tribes, based on their family unit, established themselves among the hills and mountains, valleys and dales, shore and seaside.

The figure to the right shows roughly the territories that came to be occupied by the Celtic R1b1 DNA. The extreme north was settled by the Decengli. The Clwyd would be a landmark. The Venedotae and Ordovices came to occupy the northwest sections, including the all important island called Mon. The Demetae, with a lot of Irish influence took control of the southwest. The Cornovii became the guardian of the rich lands of the middle Severn valley. Each tribal group centered around its Celtic heritage. Hill-forts became the norm. Protect what you claimed, and keep it in the family.

Show me the money!

It would have taken some time for my Y-DNA to get across that watery channel from their mainland abode. Trade would have probably started things off, with a few folks risking the sea for establishing exchange with a new and expanding market. I've got some stuff that you might want, and you've got some stuff that I might want, so lets see if we can make a deal..."show me the money!"

I suspect that a few coastal settlements got started. With this new item called "iron", and a new design of the sword, things probably got off to a good start. Over the centuries, trade must have brought increasing numbers of those R1b1b(s) and it would become clear that this island place had something to offer. The Celtic burial rites started to show up, and that two-wheeled vehicle called the chariot started to get placed in grave sites. It would have taken several centuries for the blending of these new cultures, but they were clearly established throughout the island before any of those Latin speaking Romans started to arrive. A Celtic world, scattered about in smaller tribal groups, based upon the family unit. What a deal! At last, my Y-DNA arrived to its new home.

A helpful reference is: "Celtic Britain", by Lloyd Laing, Charles Scribner's Sons, New York, 1979.

A Horse

At some point in time, the ice shelf forced it way down to the very edge of the Mediterranean Sea. This placed the timberline just north of the Swiss Alps moving along a westward position to the Pyrenees Mountain range. Snow and ice would not make for good living conditions, and the limestone caves along the Pyrenees Mountains would provide some underground shelter. What to do on those long winter nights? Doodling and drawing must have been one of the pastimes, for the caves of this region contain some of the earliest human doodles. A study of these drawings show that the horse was the most common figure drawn upon the walls of the caves. [a total of 780 times!] The bison was drawn 759 times. [ A bison was a mammal with a large head, short horns, and heavy forequarters, with a large fleshy hump.] The cow (small bovid) was drawn 212 times, and the ox (large bovid) was drawn 177 times. The reindeer (115 times) and other types of deer (290 times) were drawn. The mammoth was drawn 290 times. Little attention seemed to be placed on the rhino (20 times), the feline (26 times) , and the bear (50 times). Amazing, that the horse would be the animal that claimed the most wall space. It was the horse drawn, two wheel, chariot, that was first developed by the Hittites. The horse must have been a key animal in our Celtic-Iberian migration. A horse, a horse, my DNA for a horse! This would have been one of the last staging grounds for my R1b1b2 DNA before its final migration.

[The source for this information is "Secrets of The Ice Age, A Reappraisal of Prehistoric Man", by Evan Handingham, John Wiley & Sons, Canada, 1979. The totals are summarized from a chart on page 298.]

The Delta of the Danube

The R haplogroup migrating westward from around the north or south of the Black Sea, would meet at the delta of the Danube. This mouth would open the front door to more than 1700 miles of a branching, dense, deep water river network. The end of the road (water highway) would be the gorge in the Austrian Alps and the Western Carpathian Mountains. It was here that the family seemed to have its Celtic beginnings called by the experts the "La Tene culture". It would also be where the northern group moved along the Vistula, the Oder, the Elbe, and the Rhine to make that other R haplogroup, R1a. The R1a(s) would come to haunt us many, many years later.

As the La Tene culture expanded, it found the salt deposits to be especially helpful. At Hallstatt, meaning salt, the culture took its second stage of development called the "Hallstatt period". At this time, the family began to expand through France to the Iberian Peninsula, and to our yet to be homeland, the British Isles. By this time, the R1b1 folks would have clustered, bringing with them their Celtic roots, in language, family, society, and culture. What a trip to get to the land yet to become our home.

R1b1b

The launching pad, around the Black Sea, placed many of my R1b1b(s) around the world as it existed in the ice ages. For my Y-DNA, it would be the Welsh that clusters most of my recent family, even before the Romans arrived to the island. But, where did all the other R(s) go? The following table list the present day distribution of the R1b1b haplogroup. My Welsh homeland is at the top of the list with 89%! What a deal! After 50 years of doing my JONES family's genealogy, I had ended up in Wales before all this DNA stuff even got started. The first number in the table is the percent of those studied who had the R1b1b haplogroup. The second number is the total people used in the study. You will see that there are a number of groups that have a small amount of folks being studied. [The smaller the number in the group, the less reliable is the findings.]

R1b1b DNA:

Welsh (Anglesey) 89% 88
Basque (French/Spanish) 88% 67
Bashkirs 86% 43 [Turkic people- south Ural mountains]
Irish 82% 222
Scots 77% 61
Spanish(Minorca) 73% 37
Dutch(Germanic West) 70% 27
British(Germanic West) 69% 32
Spanish(Italic) 68% 126
Bagvalins(Caucesians) 68% 28
Orcadians(Germanic West) 66% 71
Spanish(Majorca) 66% 62
Spanish(south) 65% 162
Spanish(Valencia) 64% 73
Belgians(Germanic/Italic) 63% 92
English(Central) 62% 215
Portuguese(North Italic) 62% 328
Italians 62% 50
Italians(North Central) 62% 50
Spanish(Ibiza) 57% 54
Portuguese(south/Italic) 56% 57
Frisians(Germanic West) 56% 94
French(Italic) 52% 23
Bavarians(Germanic West) 50% 80
Germans(Germanic West) 48% 48
Morovins (Erzya) 46% 39

Wow! What a launching pad. Any readers from these areas? Please identify yourself.

Melting Pot and Launching Pad

The area around the Black Sea was both a melting pot and launching pad for many of the developing haplogroups. Central Asia has the highest number of haplogroups present today (total of 12), and provided a launching pad for the R haplogroup. The R haplogroup migrated northward [North Asia = 8%], southward [South Asia = 41%], and eastward [East Asia = 2%], while maintaining Central Asia at 31%. To the south was also the Middle East at 21%, and north Africa at 6%. [These percents represent the present haplogroup in each geographic area.]

For my JONES DNA it is the western migration that represents the movement of my Y-chromosome...to central Europe, most likely along the Danube River, to central Germany. Europe is presently represented by 45% of the R haplogroup. Around this same time R1 is thought to have emerged and somewhat later, R1b. [R1 at around 30,000years ago and R1b around 25,000 years ago.]

It is of interest that the Proto-Indo-European languages are traced to this Central Asia location. An article appearing in U.S. News and World Report, Nov.5, 1990 described how modern speech evolved from a single, ancient source. Anatolia is thought to have been this geographic location which is part of Central Asia. This was determined before most of the present DNA and genetic research had been accomplished. What a deal! Two different fields, linguists and genetics, some 10 years apart, coming to the same conclusions. [One of the first linguist was Sir William Jones, 1786!]

Now around 2000 B.C., the native Anatolian peoples are believed to have been the Hittites, Hurrians, and Mitannians. The Hittite Old Kingdom (ca. 1750 - 1550 B.C.) are believed to have sacked Babylon, ending the dynasty of Hammurabi. This Hittite Society has been termed "feudal". They pioneered construction of the light, horse-drawn chariot, with spoked wheels. This of course would require a lot of horses. They are also believed to have developed scale-armour, and one of the first people to accomplish the manipulation of iron ore. It is these folks that seem to be the root of my Celtic DNA.

On Up The Valley

You might expect that a valley would collect water. A set of parallel mountain ridges would certainly direct the flow of rain water. Grass, water, and ultimately salt, would provide a draw for all those needing life's provisions. At the equator, the sun would bear down, tend to dry things up, and make a return trip less attractive. Besides, that melting snow and ice, would offer a cooler climate, greener grasses, and lots of water. The picture to the right is another of the Rift Valley. The water collected on the floor of the valley is shown. Imagine yourself walking along, following the water''s edge. North, to the headwaters of the Nile. Then to the narrow land bridge between the Red Sea and Mediterranean Sea bringing you to the salt deposits now known as the Dead Sea. As the ice melted, migration farther north would bring you to the area where my R haplotype is thought to have emerged...the Black Sea. It was around this Black Sea that a split and spread of this R haplogroup is thought to have happened. Some to the northwest, some to the southeast, and some to the west, each to carry this R haplotype. The Caucasian mountains, the Mordvinian and near by Bashkirian mountains, and what was to be called Anatolia.

The Rift Valley

Our human ancestors are believed to have followed the herds of animals up the Rift Valley to the new lands of the Middle East. This was the corridor out of Africa, leading to the migration of the DNA that becomes my haplogroup. The Rift Valley was then believed to be an open plain where long grasses beckoned the animals to feed. In turn, these animals beckoned our ancestors to feed on them. I suspect that it was this migrating food supply that offered some advantage to the survival of my particular DNA. The picture to the right shows this not so fertile plain as it exists today. From the valley floor where I took this picture, the mountains rise fairly quickly to around 5,000 feet. It certainly would have looked different some 50,000 years ago!

My JONES haplogroup is R1b1b2. It would have the following "Gene Tree":

> 60,000 years ago - haplogroup A,

50,000 years ago - haplogroup B - to - haplogroup C at 50,000 years ago,

45,000 years ago - haplogroup F;

40,000 years ago - haplogroup K;

35,000 years ago - haplogroup P;

30,000 years ago - haplogroup R - to - haplogroup R1

25,000 years ago - haplogroup R1b

10,000 years ago - haplogroup R1b1b2 which is my Celtic roots.

Imagine that...I stood where my ancestors stood some 50,000 years ago!

Dominate Haplogroup by Geography

Over the years, certain haplogroups have come to dominate certain parts of the world. In some cases, these groups represent up to 95% of the DNA SNPS (snips) that have been studied. The figure to the right marks in blue the haplogroups that have the highest percent of the populations studied for the broad geographic areas. The haplogroups are:

Sub-Saharan Africa - haplogroup E (61%)

North Africa - haplogroup E (53%)

Middle East - haplogroup J (44%)

Europe - haplogroup R (45%)

Central Asia - haplogroup R (31%)

North Asia - haplogroup C (38%)

East Asia - haplogroup O (68%)

South Asia - haplogroup R (41%)

Pacific - haplogroup C (34%)

America - haplogroup Q (95%).

The figure also shows the percents for each haplogroup found in the geographic areas.

Haplogroups by Geography

Understanding our human origin has been the goal of many. The most recent thoughts have been given in a series of articles widely circulated:

1) "What Darwin Didn't Know", National Geographic, February 2009,

2) "4 Million Year Old Woman", National Geographic, July 2010,

3) "King Tut's DNA, Unlocking Family Secrets", National Geographic, Sept. 2010.

The Middle Awash [Sudan and Ethiopia] is generally believed to be the location of our earliest human existence. [pp. 44-45, National Geographic, July 2010] Haplogroup A is felt to have had its first DNA exposure around this geographic location, and the great Rift Valley the door to much of the first human migration.

The figure to the right is my attempt to give a "big picture" of the recognized haplogroups and their "broad" geographic locations. Starting in the upper left, then moving across the page is listed; Africa, Middle East, Europe, Asia, Pacific, and America. The next line subdivides Africa into Sub-Saharan, and North Africa. Then Asia is subdivided into Central, North, East, and South. The haplogroups are listed in chronological order placed under each geographic area. The haplogroups are then followed by a percent that this haplogroup is found within these geographic areas. For example, in Sub-Saharan Africa, haplogroup A represents approximately 21% of this geographic area. Haplogroup B represents roughly 18%. However, haplogroup E is reported to be found in roughly 61% of the folks tested from this area.

You can then follow for each geographic area, the haplogroups that have been found in DNA studies, the percentage that each roughly has, and the total number of haplogroups which have been found in these geographic areas. This figure sort of "sneezes" the haplogroups across time as well as their geographic distribution. Pretend that your mouth is located in the upper left corner of the page, and your "sneeze" spreads outward from this location. Hopefully, you will not need a Kleenex. You can enlarge the figure by clicking on the image. Enjoy. More to come.

Haplogroups to Haplotypes

As discussed in a previous post (Terms, Terms, and more Terms), a haplotype is defined by as series of changes among several nucleotides in a row. Since the changes occure side by side, they are called "Short Tandem Repeat" or STRs. At the biochemical level where these changes occur and have been identified, there has been applied a naming system. [Human Gene Nomenclature Committee] This naming system includes an address (locus); a DYS # (DNA, Y-chromosome, [unique] segment); and an "allele" value. [An allele is one side of the DNA double helix.]

The figure to the right is an addition to "The Gene Tree-Haplogroups", showing the number of haplotypes for each of the haplogroups. At the top, the number of haplotypes in each haplogroup is shown along the approximate time frame. At the bottom, the number of haplotypes are given under the haplogroup in which they are derived. Haplogroup E has the greatest number of haplotypes at 58! Haplogroup J is second in number of haplotypes (34), followed by haplogroup O (31) and haplogroup R (29). My JONES DNA belongs to haplogroup R. Certainly, it is an interest "Gene Tree"!